<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">From what I remember it was phase iii. I used to support IAS-11 between 1980-1983 at the Corporate Operations Group, Maynard, MA<br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature">-Steve<div><br></div><div>Sent from my iPad</div></div><div><br>On Sep 19, 2018, at 13:00, Jeffrey H. Johnson <<a href="mailto:jhj@trnsz.com">jhj@trnsz.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div>John, </div><div><br></div><div>Fascinating history.</div><div><br></div>I've been trying to track down DECnet/IAS - all I've been able to find so far is the SPD. (<a href="http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/spd/10.71.03_7802_DECnet-IAS.pdf">http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/spd/10.71.03_7802_DECnet-IAS.pdf</a>)<div><div><br></div><div>Was Phase III or IV software available for IAS?</div><div><br></div><div><div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">--<div>Jeffrey H. Johnson</div><div><a href="mailto:jhj@trnsz.com">jhj@trnsz.com</a></div><div><a href="https://ban.ai/multics">https://ban.ai/multics</a></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Sep 19, 2018, at 9:42 AM, John Forecast <<a href="mailto:john@forecast.name">john@forecast.name</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>I worked on DECnet Phase II (11-D and IAS) starting in February 1977. As I recall, the protocol specs were complete by then, so design had probably started sometime in 1976. The original goal was to complete the project in 9 months but it ended up taking 18+ months. </span><br><span></span><br><span>I used Phase I on a pair of 11/40’s running RSX-11D around the middle of 1976. The CHM has a transcript of an interview from 1988 with Stu Wecker who did the original DECnet architecture where he claims that Phase I development was done for 11-M, 11-D, PDP-8 and PDP-10 (Tops-10) - not sure if they were all released.</span><br><span></span><br><span> John.</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sep 18, 2018, at 6:44 PM, Johnny Billquist <<a href="mailto:bqt@softjar.se">bqt@softjar.se</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>A couple of more comments:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The manual I have for DECNET-8 is dated February 1977.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The timeline for DECnet on Wikipedia claims that phase II was introduced in 1975.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>According that same article, it would appear that only RSX ever had DECnet phase I.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But information on Wikipedia should as usual be taken with a grain of salt. Especially when it a bit more obscure information, for which there are few sources, and the information might be written by someone without direct experience.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>A couple of quotes from the code, that might help:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From NSP.PA:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/NETWORK SERVICES PROTOCOL FOR DECNET/8</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ IMPLEMENTED AT SPEC LEVEL 2.2</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/J. ROTH 23-NOV-75</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/JR 17-DEC-76 ADDED VERSION 2.2 CHANGES</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ WARNING:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ THERE EXISTS A BUG IN THE NETWORK DESIGN, SUCH THAT DROPPAGE</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ OF LEADING 0 BITS IN THE FIRST FRAME OF THE NSP DATA MESSAGE</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ IS NOT DETECTED BY CRC. TO CIRCUMVENT THIS BUG, THIS NSP CODE</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ ALWAYS SETS THE NSP 'BLOCKING' BIT WHEN SENDING, AND IGNORES IT</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ WHEN RECEIVING.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ DECNET/8 RELEASE VERSION 1</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ DECNET/8 PATCH LEVEL A</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ APRIL 8,1977</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> VERSION=01</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> PATCH="C</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/JR01 16-MAY-77 FIX CONNECT REJECT BY DISCONNECT BUG</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/ NSP02 SCR 9/77 FIX INTERRUPT PACKET BUG [02]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>So, despite the comments, it's version 1C, and not 1A. And the last fix was in September 1977.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>And "SPEC LEVEL 2.2" might be useful in figuring out what phase it might be, and it might be a hint for phase 2.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> Johnny</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 2018-09-19 00:30, Johnny Billquist wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hmm. Thinking some more, I remember that we had a discussion about this about 2 years ago.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>At that time, I tried to figure it out, and found DECnet-8 to look like it was somewhere between phase I and phase II, so I guess my previous comment was too hasty, and it don't seem to be a proper phase II implementation.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>But, like I mentioned the previous time, I can go and dig more into the code, if someone is interested.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Johnny</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 2018-09-18 22:56, Paul Koning wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Phase 2, or phase 1? I have seen (and read, cursorily) a manual for a PDP-8 based DECnet phase 1. It made it quite clear that there is no plausible way to be compatible with that, it's quite a different protocol than Phase 2 and later.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> paul</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sep 18, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Johnny Billquist <<a href="mailto:bqt@softjar.se">bqt@softjar.se</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>There is a phase ii release for rts-8. How easy it would be to get it up and running might be a different story, but the sources are on the internet.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Johnny</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul Koning <<a href="mailto:paulkoning@comcast.net">paulkoning@comcast.net</a>> skrev: (18 september 2018 19:30:56 CEST)</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Does anyone have the Phase II DECnet that goes with RSTS V7.0? I think it calls itself DECnet/E V1.1, rather confusingly.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>For that matter, are there any Phase II DECnet releases around? I know of the TOPS-20 one; any others? Ditto for Phase III.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> paul</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Skickat från min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Ursäkta min fåordighet.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> || on a psychedelic trip</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>email: <a href="mailto:bqt@softjar.se">bqt@softjar.se</a> || Reading murder books</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></body></html>