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<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">I think part of this is valid.
However...<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">The VAX to Alpha emulation was
an ongoing effort and I recall that what was published about it
was quite interesting (I think this was mid-1990's). Recall
that the Alpha was the fastest chip in the world at the time;
300 Mhz. Nearly incomprehensible... That was plenty of speed
to get your VAX code working.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">With gigahertz speeds, it seems
to me that not only would emulation of Alpha be usable, but that
emulation of Alpha emulating VAX would be usable.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">The value-add of x86_64 VMS is
that you can keep running VAX software; the sources might not
exist. You may have invested many, many man-years in
development and this is a cheaper alternative to porting. That
is certainly the case in many instances on z/OS. It is not
about the cheaper hardware.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">Microsoft has a different sales
model that is largely consumer driven; if you don't respond
quickly then people go elsewhere. For commercial systems, hoops
are <i>de rigueur</i>. Believe me, you just don't walk in and
pick up an IBM mainframe (or you didn't anyway). In some ways,
VSI, Stomasys and the others are acting in a perfectly ordinary
manner (that we as hobbyists do not appreciate).</font><br>
</p>
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cite="mid:7f50f883f3124cab8e8dcdfa9956b356@MERLIN.pitbulluk.local">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">On
3/13/20 3:49 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’m
still having difficulty in envisaging a situation where VSI
(and Stromasys and other commercial purveyors of VAX and
Alpha emulators) can actually generate any new business even
if/when VSI produce a port of VMS to x86/64. Are VSI going
to bother doing JIT, or even one-time translation of VAX and
Alpha images to x86/64. I got the impression that VAX to
Alpha image translation wasn’t that great for anything
particularly sophisticated. VAX and Alpha legacy software
and its maintenance are probably as locked into now obsolete
layered products as they are the hardware (real/emulated).
New potential customers buying x86/64 hardware or cloud
capacity are going to take a look at Windows and Linux,
having already discounted the several orders of magnitude
higher costs of VMS if the somewhat opaque VSI marketing
rituals haven’t already put them off.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
know what Windows Server 2019 will cost me, up front or
hosted, on a range of platforms or providers within about 15
minutes of looking.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
haven’t the faintest idea with VMS – neither HPE nor VSI
will tell me until I jump through hoops and then it’ll be
after ’72 hours’ of evasion and horse-trading.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">No
thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE">owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE">mailto:owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Moylan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 March 2020 11:32<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hecnet@update.uu.se">hecnet@update.uu.se</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [HECnet] long term paks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From what I have heard, it’s full
commercial rate with no discounts. Think $20K plus per
instance licensed. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hobbyist
users who wish to use their VAXen beyond December 2021 will
need to obtain “alternative” licensing. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.0pt">Cheers,
Wiz!!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.0pt">Sent
from my iPhone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On 13
Mar 2020, at 7:47 am, Thomas DeBellis <<a
href="mailto:tommytimesharing@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">tommytimesharing@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span>
<o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p>I'm suspect "normal commercial prices" == "bring your
wallet"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Go see what prices are for SAS to see what I mean.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/12/20 2:58 PM, Paul Koning
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Can anyone translate "normal
commercial prices" into numbers?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">
</span>paul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 12, 2020, at 2:51
PM, Dave Wade <<a
href="mailto:dave.g4ugm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave.g4ugm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jon says normal
commercial prices so too expensive for
most<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dave<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 13 Mar
2020, 7:46 am Ray Jewhurst, <<a
href="mailto:raywjewhurst@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">raywjewhurst@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I haven't
received an email from them yet but
I wonder if the offer will time
sensitive or if we wait until
December 31st 2021 when the final
free hobbyist licenses expire.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ray <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 12,
2020, 2:41 PM Bill Cunningham <<a
href="mailto:bill.cu@suddenlink.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bill.cu@suddenlink.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I
just received an email from the
HPE program. I guess they are
going to
<br>
have long term PAKs they are
selling to hobbyists. So I guess I
am out. <br>
There is someone named Jon you can
get these from. I believe Jon
Feldman.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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