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<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">I should add, however, that even
IBM has come to understand the value of having people
understanding and adoring their operating systems and maximizing
the knowledgeable user base. Otherwise, finding people to do
maintenance can be problematic (== $$$) or impossible.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">My understanding is that while
you can't get the most current version of the various 390 based
OS's, you can get older ones for free for hobbyist usage. OK...<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">In other words, buzz is a good
thing. Perhaps we can hope that VSI will figure that out.</font><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:723b1ffa-0b58-4410-f473-9c4b84173dee@gmail.com">
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<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif">On 3/13/20 4:08 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote: </font>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">I think part of this is
valid. However...<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">The VAX to Alpha emulation was
an ongoing effort and I recall that what was published about
it was quite interesting (I think this was mid-1990's).
Recall that the Alpha was the fastest chip in the world at the
time; 300 Mhz. Nearly incomprehensible... That was plenty of
speed to get your VAX code working.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">With gigahertz speeds, it
seems to me that not only would emulation of Alpha be usable,
but that emulation of Alpha emulating VAX would be usable.</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">The value-add of x86_64 VMS is
that you can keep running VAX software; the sources might not
exist. You may have invested many, many man-years in
development and this is a cheaper alternative to porting.
That is certainly the case in many instances on z/OS. It is
not about the cheaper hardware.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif">Microsoft has a different
sales model that is largely consumer driven; if you don't
respond quickly then people go elsewhere. For commercial
systems, hoops are <i>de rigueur</i>. Believe me, you just
don't walk in and pick up an IBM mainframe (or you didn't
anyway). In some ways, VSI, Stomasys and the others are
acting in a perfectly ordinary manner (that we as hobbyists do
not appreciate).</font><br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">On
3/13/20 3:49 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’m
still having difficulty in envisaging a situation where
VSI (and Stromasys and other commercial purveyors of VAX
and Alpha emulators) can actually generate any new
business even if/when VSI produce a port of VMS to x86/64.
Are VSI going to bother doing JIT, or even one-time
translation of VAX and Alpha images to x86/64. I got the
impression that VAX to Alpha image translation wasn’t that
great for anything particularly sophisticated. VAX and
Alpha legacy software and its maintenance are probably as
locked into now obsolete layered products as they are the
hardware (real/emulated). New potential customers buying
x86/64 hardware or cloud capacity are going to take a look
at Windows and Linux, having already discounted the
several orders of magnitude higher costs of VMS if the
somewhat opaque VSI marketing rituals haven’t already put
them off.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
know what Windows Server 2019 will cost me, up front or
hosted, on a range of platforms or providers within about
15 minutes of looking.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
haven’t the faintest idea with VMS – neither HPE nor VSI
will tell me until I jump through hoops and then it’ll be
after ’72 hours’ of evasion and horse-trading.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">No
thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE"
moz-do-not-send="true">owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Moylan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 March 2020 11:32<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:hecnet@update.uu.se"
moz-do-not-send="true">hecnet@update.uu.se</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [HECnet] long term paks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From what I have heard, it’s full
commercial rate with no discounts. Think $20K plus per
instance licensed. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hobbyist
users who wish to use their VAXen beyond December 2021
will need to obtain “alternative” licensing. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.0pt">Cheers,
Wiz!!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.0pt">Sent
from my iPhone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On 13
Mar 2020, at 7:47 am, Thomas DeBellis <<a
href="mailto:tommytimesharing@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">tommytimesharing@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"></span>
<o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I'm suspect "normal commercial prices" == "bring
your wallet"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Go see what prices are for SAS to see what I mean.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/12/20 2:58 PM, Paul Koning
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Can anyone translate "normal
commercial prices" into numbers? <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">
</span>paul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 12, 2020, at 2:51
PM, Dave Wade <<a
href="mailto:dave.g4ugm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave.g4ugm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jon says normal
commercial prices so too expensive for
most<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dave<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 13 Mar
2020, 7:46 am Ray Jewhurst, <<a
href="mailto:raywjewhurst@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">raywjewhurst@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I haven't
received an email from them yet
but I wonder if the offer will
time sensitive or if we wait until
December 31st 2021 when the final
free hobbyist licenses expire. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ray <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar
12, 2020, 2:41 PM Bill
Cunningham <<a
href="mailto:bill.cu@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bill.cu@suddenlink.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I
just received an email from the
HPE program. I guess they are
going to <br>
have long term PAKs they are
selling to hobbyists. So I guess
I am out. <br>
There is someone named Jon you
can get these from. I believe
Jon Feldman.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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