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<p>Hi Johnny,<br>
</p>
<p>I got the list from the <font size="4"><tt>SETNOD</tt></font>
that came with PANDA, the DEC version being <u><font size="4"><tt>UPD
ID= 479, SNARK:<6.UTILITIES>SETHOS.MAC.4, 10-Feb-84
14:39:12 by EVANS</tt></font></u>. I should note that this
list <i>conflicts</i> with what is in <font size="4"><tt>DAPSYM</tt></font>.
Since my <font size="4"><tt>DAPSYM</tt></font> is from 1980, I
thought that <font size="4"><tt>SETNOD</tt></font> might take
precedence or otherwise be more 'accurate'. At least, I didn't
remember the <font size="4"><tt>SETNOD</tt></font> one being
wrong from the last time I was hacking it. Just in case, I double
checked and It seems OK; take a look at following tests:<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><font size="4"><tt>Kermit-20>set line <b>VENTI2</b>::</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
[Remote system is running <i>TOPS-20</i>]</tt><tt><br>
</tt></font>
<font size="4"><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
Kermit-20>set line <b>VENTI</b>:: </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
[Remote system is running <i>TOPS-10</i>]</tt><tt><br>
</tt></font>
<font size="4"><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
Kermit-20>set line <b>MIM</b>::</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
?<i>RSX-11M</i> type systems do not support Tops-10/20 NRT
communications.</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
Kermit-20>set line <b>APOLLO</b>:: </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
?<i>VMS</i> type systems do not support Tops-10/20 NRT
communications.</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
Kermit-20>set line <b>BITXOT</b>:: </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
?</tt><i><tt>RSTS/E</tt></i><tt> type systems do not support
Tops-10/20 NRT communications.</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
Kermit-20></tt></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Since I've signed on to every system via <font size="4"><tt>CTERM</tt></font>
except the last, I know those messages are correct. I have no id
for <font size="4"><tt>BITXOT::</tt></font>, but it is documented
to be RSTS/E, so the value 1 there appears correct. I was unable
to test with the two RT systems that are documented in <font
size="4"><tt>MIM</tt></font>:: and am not sure what the reject
reason means.<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><font size="4"><tt>Kermit-20>set line <b>SEADOG</b>:: </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>?Connection failure, Reject or Disconnect by Object</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>Kermit-20>set line <b>SNOTRA</b>:: </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>?Connection failure, Reject or Disconnect by Object</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>Kermit-20></tt></font><br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p> On the other hand, I don't remember my <font size="4"><tt>FAL</tt></font>/<font
size="4"><tt>NFT</tt></font>/<font size="4"><tt>DAP</tt></font>
blowing up on the wrong system, either (they blow up on plenty of
other stuff...) It would appear that there are <u>two</u> (2)
separate lists of system type bytes, one for <font size="4"><tt>NRT</tt></font>
and the other for <font size="4"><tt>DAP</tt></font>, viz:<font
size="4"><tt><br>
</tt></font></p>
<blockquote><font size="4"><tt> NRT DAPSYM</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 1 RSTS .OSRT==1 ;RT-11</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 2 RT-11 .OSRST==2 ;RSTS/E</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 3 RSTS/E .OSRXS==3 ;RSX-11S</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 4 RSX-11S .OSRXM==4 ;RSX-11M</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 5 RSX-11M .OSRXD==5 ;RSX-11D</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 6 RSX-11D .OSIAS==6 ;IAS</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 7 IAS .OSVAX==7 ;VAX/VMS</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 8 VMS .OSTP20==10 ;TOPS-20 (^D8)</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt> 9 TOPS-20 .OSTP10==11 ;TOPS-10 (^D9)</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>10 TOPS-10 .OSOS8==12 ;OS-8 (^D10)</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>11 RTS-8 .OSRXP==13 ;RSX11-M PLUS (^D11)</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>12 OS-8</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>13 RSX-11M+</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>14 MCB</tt></font><br>
</blockquote>
<p>Does anybody know what the <font size="4"><tt>CTERM</tt></font>
list would be? This disparity is unfortunate. Any speculations
as to how it happened? I'm thinking somebody not talking to
somebody else, but I really wouldn't have any idea.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:7abb712a-180c-9aed-a610-e3f71eac3381@softjar.se">
<hr width="100%" size="2">On 11/7/21 6:17 AM, Johnny Billquist
wrote:<br>
<br>
Thomas, I'm not sure where you got that list from.
<br>
<br>
It seems slightly mismatching what I can find. Looking at the NRT
code in RSX (which uses object 23, and is shared by code in RSX
for connecting to both RSTS/E, VMS and Tops-20), I find this:
<br>
<br>
1 RT-11
<br>
2 RSTS/E
<br>
3 RSX-11S
<br>
4 RSX-11M
<br>
5 RSX-11D
<br>
6 IAS
<br>
7 VMS
<br>
<br>
<br>
Those are the documented values for the configuration message that
I can find.
<br>
<br>
However, extrapolating from this, in NFT/FAL, there is a much more
extensive list, which seems to align with this list, which
contains:
<br>
<br>
8 TOPS-20
<br>
9 Tops-10
<br>
10 RTS-8
<br>
11 OS/8
<br>
12 RSX-11M-PLUS
<br>
13 COPOS/11 (TOPS-20 frontend)
<br>
14 P/OS
<br>
15 VAXELN
<br>
16 CP/M
<br>
17 MS-DOS
<br>
18 Ultrix-32
<br>
19 Ultrix-11
<br>
20 DTF/MVS
<br>
25 Windows NT
<br>
26 Linux
<br>
<br>
<br>
Now, Linux is a value I believe I added just based on observation,
so it's much less official. But I think all the other ones are
ones DEC did assign. Unfortunately, I think Windows NT was also
added by me, based on observation of Pathworks. So I do not know
what the values between 20 and 25 could/should be.
<br>
<br>
But maybe this helps some anyway?
<br>
<br>
Johnny
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2021-11-07 11:23, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Since its inception, Kermit-20 (one the
first three Kermit implementations) has had the 'limitation'
that it will only talk to a remote Kermit via a physical
terminal line (I.E., something like TTY6:). It doesn't do
network terminals in part because it has no code to handle the
out-of-band or meta-data that one finds on TVT's (like IAC's) or
CTERM's.
<br>
<br>
This doesn't exist for the early NRT terminals which were
implemented for Tops-10 and Tops-20. Once you've read the
initial configuration message and decided what to do, you
basically never have to bother with meta-data. Because I'm
trying to look at an NFT issue between Tops-10 and Tops-20, I
needed another transport mechanism and modifying Kermit-20 to do
DECnet 36 NRT's seemed like an easy hack. Since Tops-10 Kermit
isn't making an outgoing connection, it is none the wiser.
<br>
<br>
Thus far, it has been fairly straightforward. Right now I'm
just catching the few cases where certain operations don't make
sense or otherwise wouldn't work (like setting the terminal
speed). Another thing I'd like to prevent is Kermit-20 bothering
non-36 bit systems. This is easily enough done by checking some
'magic' bits in the initial configuration message and
restricting by OS type. This raises two questions:
<br>
<br>
First, is the list below complete? What about Ultrix and ...
what else?
<br>
<br>
1 RSTS 2 RT-11 3 RSTS/E 4 RSX-11S 5
RSX-11M
<br>
6 RSX-11D 7 IAS 8 VMS 9 TOPS-20 10
TOPS-10 11 RTS-8 12 OS-8 13 RSX-11M+ 14 MCB
<br>
<br>
Second, the configuration isn't well documented. Actually, I'm
not sure if it's documented, period. All I have is are some
notes that Johnny wrote up in the process of reverse-engineering
it and very kindly gave me. They are certainly fine for this
particular implementation, but I was just wondering what else
there might be. Plenty for LAT and CTERM, but I don't think I've
stumbled over NRT.
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
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