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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I wish I could find the port of Algol68C to the PDP10. I occasionally ask, but there is no trace of it </span><span style='font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>☹</span><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet@Update.UU.SE> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Koning<br><b>Sent:</b> 08 November 2021 19:31<br><b>To:</b> hecnet@Update.UU.SE<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [HECnet] "IP protocols on DECnet'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Algol 60 and Algol 68 are very different languages. Algol 60 is very simple, and was implemented quite widely. There is a PDP-11 version that apparently was derived from a PDP-8 implementation. And the first Algol 60 compiler -- a FULL language implementation -- ran in just 4k 27-bit words (1961, Electrologica X1, by Dijkstra and Zonneveld).<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Algol-68 adds structures (but not methods), and a bunch of other stuff. It's a much harder language. Lots of people did subset implementations; I know of a PDP-11 compiler (done by Carnegie-Mellon, no sign that it has been preserved). A few were pretty complete; CDC actually had one as a commercial product for the 6000 mainframes, implemented by their Dutch office, most likely at the urging of CWI in Amsterdam.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It has been said that C++ was inspired by Algol-68. If so, the lessons didn't come across well, no more than the Algol-60 lessons came across to the C designers. And I wonder if it helped inspire Python.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Algol 68 does not have call by name. But if you really want the equivalent you can pass a function as an argument.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>paul<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 8, 2021, at 2:18 PM, Thomas DeBellis <<a href="mailto:tommytimesharing@gmail.com">tommytimesharing@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Indeed, one wonders about the focus on Call by Name and all that thunky stuff. I can't remember off hand where I needed Jensen's Device, although everybody did agree it was a cool think. On the other hand, the thunk could get expensive.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>At the time, there was far focus on control flow than data structures. So programming Algol 60 (on the 10) is not that much different from C in many, many respects, except:<o:p></o:p></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>More consistency and verbs to avoid using a <tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>goto</span></tt> (like a <tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>return</span></tt> statement)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Non-atomic data structures or records (<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>struct</span></tt>'s)<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The ALGOL STAR game had to do some gymnastics to pick data into ints into order to track players which would have been completely unnecessary had C been used.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>But this was 1974 on Long Island; nobody had heard of C or Unix. I'm not sure if it was out of the lab in any significant way by then.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 11/8/21 1:59 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>On 11/8/21 1:45 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote: <br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>One of my best friends in High School and during my undergraduate years (shortly after the invention of electricity) was positively an Algol 68 _fanatic_. I don't think I ever saw him without that green and white ACM magazine issue with a focus on Algol 68 which he would whip out at a moment's notice. Sometimes it seemed that he thought that a sneeze could best be expressed in Algol 68. <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br> Nah...really, you need C for that. <br><br> -Dave <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>