[HECnet] My RSTS/E system...

[John Forecast]

> On Aug 12, 2018, at 9:12 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> On 2018-08-12 14:16, Keith Halewood wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Regarding the mapping, you may have noticed the odd NML (I think) originating from here. I've been parsing the output of areas, circuit/node/area adjacency and then the script, such as it is, hops around and attempts the 'next stage' of discovery via tell <node of interest> etc..
> 
> NML is properly called, as a protocol, NICE. Network Information and Control Exchange, or something like that.
> 
> Accessing information through that does not normally generate any logging information in RSX, and does not bother me. But as I mentioned below, Cisco routers, for example, does not implement this protocol, so you can't explore things beyond those points easily.
> 
>> It has its obvious limitations - a snapshot of currently connected, lowest cost adjacency (nodes and areas) but of course if a 'tell' is rebuffed by a node, then I can only infer.
> 
> By exploring adjacent nodes and known circuits, you'd get a more complete picture, as it will also show you connections which are not the lowest cost paths.
> 
> However, as I said, it will only give a partial picture anyway. I also found out the other day that it don't seem like RSTS/E implements it either, or maybe it depends on version and maybe it's optional.
> 
> Not sure how much Tops-10 supports either. And it might be even more complex/limited with odd implementations, like the Linux hack.
> 
	Both Tops-10 (v7.04) and Tops-20 (v7.1) have a pretty complete NICE implementation although I was only able to check non-routing nodes - I
	forget whether they support routing. The Linux hack has a very limited NICE implementation - any attempt to show line or circuit information
	returns “No information in database”.

	   John.

>  Johnny
> 
>> Regards,
>> Keith
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
>> Sent: 12 August 2018 10:25
>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>> Subject: Re: [HECnet] My RSTS/E system...
>> On 2018-08-12 04:55, Mark Abene wrote:
>>> Honestly mapping the whole network seems a little redundant, since
>>> Johnny already does that and the information is reasonably up to date
>>> on his web site.
>> Well, that's not really true. I do not map, or try to keep some kind of map of HECnet. I have my nodename database, which is entirely voluntary to register nodes in, and I know that not all nodes on HECnet are in there.
>> In addition, this does not give much clue about how things are connected, and for some machines, nothing more than the owner, name and number is registered.
>> That said, I do not think it is realistic to automatically try to map out HECnet anyway, so I think that any such attempts should be thought about a second time, and probably be abandoned.
>> There are several problems with trying any kind of mapping. The first is that there are no proper protocol that is suitable. NICE would be the obvious first choice, but for example Cisco routers do not provide NICE at all. And so, you can not traverse and follow connections that way.
>> There are no other way of just exploring what connections exist, so then we instead have to resort to an exhaustive search of all node numbers, using all kind of protocols a machine *might* answer to, which will trigger all kind of logging events and possibly security systems getting activated, which is not good.
>> Some kind of voluntary system is the only acceptable option I think. If people want to, that could be a way. Possibly using FAL to explore and find other nodes, but it would have to be based on lists of machines to probe, which would need to be manually kept up to date.
>> Similar things have been attempted in the past, with mixed to poor results, I would say.
>>    Johnny
>>> 
>>> -Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 7:41 AM, Supratim Sanyal <supratim at riseup.net
>>> <mailto:supratim at riseup.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>     Hi Mark,
>>> 
>>>     I have DCL script generating this web page once a week - perhaps you
>>>     see this pinging your system? Or maybe I was looking for a guest
>>>     account many months ago for some reason I can’t remember.
>>>     http://sanyalnet-openvms-vax.freeddns.org:82/falserver/hecnet-status.html
>>>     <http://sanyalnet-openvms-vax.freeddns.org:82/falserver/hecnet-status.
>>> html>
>>> 
>>>     Supratim Sanyal
>>>     Germantown, MD
>>> 
>>> 
>>>     On Aug 11, 2018, at 12:15 AM, Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com
>>>     <mailto:phiber at phiber.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>     OK, so who is "SANYAL" at node 1.550? If you'd like an account on
>>>>     my RSTS/E system, all you need do is ask. I'm one of those sys
>>>>     admins who actually reads his event logs.  :)
>>>> 
>>>>     Regards,
>>>>     Mark
>>>> 
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol