[HECnet] Speaking of old decnet releases

[Jeffrey H. Johnson]

John, 

Fascinating history.

I've been trying to track down DECnet/IAS - all I've been able to find so far is the SPD. (http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/spd/10.71.03_7802_DECnet-IAS.pdf)

Was Phase III or IV software available for IAS?

--
Jeffrey H. Johnson
jhj at trnsz.com
https://ban.ai/multics

> On Sep 19, 2018, at 9:42 AM, John Forecast <john at forecast.name> wrote:
> 
> I worked on DECnet Phase II (11-D and IAS) starting in February 1977. As I recall, the protocol specs were complete by then, so design had probably started sometime in 1976. The original goal was to complete the project in 9 months but it ended up taking 18+ months. 
> 
> I used Phase I on a pair of 11/40’s running RSX-11D around the middle of 1976. The CHM has a transcript of an interview from 1988 with Stu Wecker who did the original DECnet architecture where he claims that Phase I development was done for 11-M, 11-D, PDP-8 and PDP-10 (Tops-10) - not sure if they were all released.
> 
>  John.
> 
>> On Sep 18, 2018, at 6:44 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
>> 
>> A couple of more comments:
>> 
>> The manual I have for DECNET-8 is dated February 1977.
>> The timeline for DECnet on Wikipedia claims that phase II was introduced in 1975.
>> According that same article, it would appear that only RSX ever had DECnet phase I.
>> 
>> But information on Wikipedia should as usual be taken with a grain of salt. Especially when it a bit more obscure information, for which there are few sources, and the information might be written by someone without direct experience.
>> 
>> A couple of quotes from the code, that might help:
>> 
>> From NSP.PA:
>> /NETWORK SERVICES PROTOCOL FOR DECNET/8
>> / IMPLEMENTED AT SPEC LEVEL 2.2
>> /
>> /J. ROTH        23-NOV-75
>> /JR             17-DEC-76       ADDED VERSION 2.2 CHANGES
>> /
>> /  WARNING:
>> /
>> /  THERE EXISTS A BUG IN THE NETWORK DESIGN, SUCH THAT DROPPAGE
>> /  OF LEADING 0 BITS IN THE FIRST FRAME OF THE NSP DATA MESSAGE
>> /  IS NOT DETECTED BY CRC. TO CIRCUMVENT THIS BUG, THIS NSP CODE
>> /  ALWAYS SETS THE NSP 'BLOCKING' BIT WHEN SENDING, AND IGNORES IT
>> /  WHEN RECEIVING.
>> /
>> /
>> / DECNET/8 RELEASE VERSION 1
>> / DECNET/8 PATCH LEVEL A
>> / APRIL 8,1977
>> /
>>       VERSION=01
>>       PATCH="C
>> /JR01   16-MAY-77       FIX CONNECT REJECT BY DISCONNECT BUG
>> /  NSP02        SCR 9/77        FIX INTERRUPT PACKET BUG        [02]
>> /
>> 
>> 
>> So, despite the comments, it's version 1C, and not 1A. And the last fix was in September 1977.
>> And "SPEC LEVEL 2.2" might be useful in figuring out what phase it might be, and it might be a hint for phase 2.
>> 
>> Johnny
>> 
>>> On 2018-09-19 00:30, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>>> Hmm. Thinking some more, I remember that we had a discussion about this about 2 years ago.
>>> At that time, I tried to figure it out, and found DECnet-8 to look like it was somewhere between phase I and phase II, so I guess my previous comment was too hasty, and it don't seem to be a proper phase II implementation.
>>> But, like I mentioned the previous time, I can go and dig more into the code, if someone is interested.
>>>  Johnny
>>>> On 2018-09-18 22:56, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>> Phase 2, or phase 1?  I have seen (and read, cursorily) a manual for a PDP-8 based DECnet phase 1.  It made it quite clear that there is no plausible way to be compatible with that, it's quite a different protocol than Phase 2 and later.
>>>> 
>>>>    paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 18, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is a phase ii release for rts-8. How easy it would be to get it up and running might be a different story, but the sources are on the internet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Johnny
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> skrev: (18 september 2018 19:30:56 CEST)
>>>>> Does anyone have the Phase II DECnet that goes with RSTS V7.0?  I think it calls itself DECnet/E V1.1, rather confusingly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For that matter, are there any Phase II DECnet releases around?  I know of the TOPS-20 one; any others?  Ditto for Phase III.
>>>>> 
>>>>>    paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Skickat från min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Ursäkta min fåordighet.
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>>                                 ||  on a psychedelic trip
>> email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
>> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> 
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