[HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80

Tue Apr 7 15:03:42 PDT 2020

Please share what you've done Keith - is that running the pre-built executable, or building?
I'm attempting to build it. In order to do that I have installed VWS043 which includes a DECwindows emulation layer for VWS.
I've got to the point of linking, but there appears to be an issue linking the VAX Macro source files with the single C source file VTHAND.C that does the VWS interface.

What I found interesting was the dates on the source files, just for reference...

Regards, Mark.

%<------------------------------
 MSW at ORAC$ dir/date *.mar,*.c

Directory DISK$USERS:[MSW.SMALLTALK.SMALLTALK]

DISPATCH.MAR;2       14-DEC-1982 19:51:20.00
FASTKBIO.MAR;2        2-NOV-1981 14:09:04.00
FIRST.MAR;2          14-SEP-1981 12:43:06.00
GRAPHICS.MAR;2       18-NOV-1982 18:30:26.00
INIT.MAR;2           25-OCT-1985 19:58:10.00
INTERPRET.MAR;2      23-SEP-1982 02:06:26.00
LAST.MAR;2           14-SEP-1981 12:45:12.00
OMDATA.MAR;2          4-JAN-1982 15:18:30.00
PMON.MAR;2           28-FEB-1985 18:33:12.00
PRIMARITH.MAR;2       9-NOV-1981 17:28:14.00
PRIMARRAY.MAR;2       1-JAN-1982 17:47:10.00
PRIMCNTL.MAR;2       12-JUN-1984 19:53:16.00
PRIMFILES.MAR;2       4-MAR-1985 13:03:16.00
PRIMIO.MAR;2         25-OCT-1985 19:50:12.00
PRIMOBJEC.MAR;2       1-SEP-1982 18:00:04.00
PRIMSYS.MAR;2        19-NOV-1982 16:18:22.00
PROCESS.MAR;2         1-JAN-1982 18:24:14.00
REALMEM.MAR;2        18-NOV-1982 18:32:00.00
SMALLMACS.MAR;3       7-APR-2020 21:16:21.65
TTSUBS.MAR;2         25-OCT-1985 19:54:08.00
VMSFILES.MAR;2       22-NOV-1982 21:39:18.00
CVTSMALL.C;2         30-NOV-1981 16:32:14.00
CVTSOURCE.C;2         9-NOV-1981 21:11:26.00
CVTSRC.C;3            7-APR-2020 21:39:48.16
HACKER.C;2           11-FEB-1982 17:28:26.00
MAKER.C;2            30-NOV-1981 18:27:04.00
STY.C;2              13-JUN-1984 13:31:30.00
VTHAND.C;2           21-MAY-1987 18:15:18.00

Total of 28 files.
MSW at ORAC$

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of Keith Halewood
Sent: 07 April 2020 23:01
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80

I got it ‘working’ but missing the uVMS Workstation support... that and not having a VT125. Remember the VMI files need to be 512 byte fixed records because they’re mapped in.

> On 7 Apr 2020, at 22:15, Thomas DeBellis <tommytimesharing at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that is pretty awesome!
> 
> I don't suppose any flavor of Smalltalk ever made it over to the PDP-10?  I think Object Oriented Lisp (Lisp with Flavors) may have made it.
> 
> There was a graphics device called a Type 340 Precision Incremental CRT Display which was used on the PDP-6 and available on the KA-10.  I saw one at MIT on MIT-AI (ITS).  Since Tenex started out on a KA-10, it is available there, too.
> 
> I never heard of it on the KI-10 but I believe it was possible. For internal memory on the 20, probably not.  Tops-20 has certain small traces of the device.
> 
> However, SIMH does in fact implement the Type 340; apparently, fully.  You can a pop-up window with all the dots in the right places.  I had started investigating porting some of that code to KLH10.  One assumes with the SIMH KL, it could be made available. It's an interesting thought.
> 
>> On 4/7/20 4:46 PM, mark at wickensonline.co.uk wrote:
>> Wow!
>> 
>> Thank you for this! Not only is Smalltalk interesting in itself, but this an excellent example of VAX Macro-32 too!
>> I will attempt to assemble + compile the application.
>> It looks like it is using VS II user interface libraries. That will be the first hurdle to compile it on a machine with the appropriate library and graphics - I'm thinking here maybe on of Matt's graphical versions of SIMH?
>> 
>> Thanks, Mark.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf 
>> Of John H. Reinhardt
>> Sent: 07 April 2020 15:15
>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>> Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
>> 
>>> On 4/7/2020 7:45 AM, Nigel Williams wrote:
>>> See below for a link to a g-drive file containing a ZIP archive of the DEC research group implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
>>> 
>>> If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the screen with Smalltalk running.
>>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>>> *From:* Nigel Williams <nw at retroComputingTasmania.com>
>>>> *Date:* 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
>>>> *To:* John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
>>>> *Subject:* *Re:  VAX/Smalltalk-80?*
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2 Apr 2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>>> I know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of Advice"
>>>> Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know 
>>>> their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical 
>>>> Journal too.
>>>> 
>>>>> ...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed 
>>>>> within DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by 
>>>>> Stoney Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a 
>>>>> surviving copy out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin with?
>>>> I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
>>>> 
>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
>>>> 
>>>> I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around 
>>>> version 4.x (might work on a later version).
>>>> 
>>>> cheers,
>>>> nigel.
>> Very cool.  I have the three (?) popular books about smalltalk-80 from the 80's. I'll have to dig them out along with the DEC Tech Journal (If I have it).
>> 
>> --
>> John H. Reinhardt
>> 
>> 