[HECnet] Mailing list...

Supratim Sanyal supratim at riseup.net
Fri Jul 31 12:14:46 PDT 2020 

> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:01 PM, Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Well I do have my own domain and I have publish my domain email and use forwarding to send it to my actual ISP. So I can change the forwarding to my Hotmail account. The trouble with this forwarding system is that it "leaks" my ISP address and some people to end up using that.

Rob - Yep. Right. :)

OT - ROUTE20 is holding up for many weeks now!

> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
>> Of Dave Wade
>> Sent: 31 July 2020 09:06
>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>> Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
>> 
>> Rob (and the others)
>> 
>> Why do you use your ISPs "free" E-Mail accounts when there are good "free" or
>> "cheap" providers.
>> 
>> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/02/ofcom-warns-major-uk-
>> broadband-isps-over-charging-for-email.html
>> 
>> and if you don't like a @hotmail.com address why not add an @outlook.com,
>> same servers, better reputation...
>> ... as for "spam detection" systems well they want the headline figure , so the
>> "spam detection rate" to be as high as possible.
>> Most customers are happy with this and blame the sender if things get blocked
>> when in reality it’s the suppliers over aggressive filters...
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> p.s. when talking to suppliers of such systems, I say what happens to important
>> stuff wrongly classed as spam?
>> Usually they used to tell me it was retained in a folder and could be checked by
>> some minion..
>> I say so, the Finance Director, who will be paying for this is a bit of a ladies
>> man, gets lewd e-mails from his lady friends who tend to use a different
>> Hotmail account each time?
>> Will those get filtered and will the minions see those as it could be
>> embarrassing.......
>> 
>> Pps. I now have a fixed IP address but it looks like no VAX licences soon.... Alpha
>> has arrived but I am not leaving it on full time even if it runs ... pic here
>> 
>> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ag4BJfE5B3onmM4SMrRd2aiAnoG2dw?e=UGwLNh
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Rob Jarratt
>>> Sent: 31 July 2020 07:48
>>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>>> Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
>>> 
>>> I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I know that
>>> sometimes emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know
>>> very little about these things). I know that people in the know think
>>> that these spam protection systems are no good, I don't know why
>>> because as I said I know little about all this, although it seems to
>>> me that the *intent* behind those systems is good. However, it seems
>>> to me that, for whatever reason, they are used by a lot of the major
>>> ISPs, so might you end up excluding a lot of people if you unsubscribe them
>> for using an ISP that uses these measures?
>>> 
>>> I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for one mailing list,
>>> because I also get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it
>>> would be quite disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were
>>> able to tell people that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail
>>> account I could use instead if I really had to.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Rob
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Johnny Billquist
>>>> Sent: 30 July 2020 22:40
>>>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>>>> Subject: [HECnet] Mailing list...
>>>> 
>>>> Hi, all.
>>>> 
>>>> I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
>>>> I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something
>>>> to people who are subscribed.
>>>> 
>>>> Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do
>>>> try to check why, and occasionally there have been something I could
>>>> do about it, but many times it's simply what I would call a broken
>>>> mail server for which there isn't much I can do. So occasionally I
>>>> unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
>>>> 
>>>> One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't
>>>> have reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS
>>>> setup for at least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is
>>>> set up, but I can't do much about it.
>>>> 
>>>> Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who
>>>> thinks the hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is
>>>> untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or what not. Usually not
>>>> much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
>>>> make use of such services, and such services give that kind of
>>>> information, it essentially just means that you'll not be getting
>>>> the hecnet mails any
>>> more.
>>>> 
>>>> There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
>>>> I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken
>>>> to start with, but I will of course not say that people can't use
>>>> them if they want to. But chances are that you'll get dropped from
>>>> the HECnet mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using some
>>>> service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
>>>> 
>>>> An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
>>>> 
>>>>> <XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>>>>>    mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected
>> by
>>>>>    06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to
>>>>> end of
>>>> DATA
>>>>>    command)
>>>> 
>>>> reason=CH ?
>>>> What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from
>>> Switzerland?
>>>> (Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I sent to the
>>>> list, but
>>> really?
>>>> Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
>>>> 
>>>>> <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>>>>>    mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
>>>>> Message
>>>> rejected
>>>>>    due to local policy. Please visit
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-
>>> us/HT204137
>>>>>    (in reply to end of DATA command)
>>>>> 
>>>>> <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>>>>>    mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
>>>>> Message
>>>> rejected
>>>>>    due to local policy. Please visit
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-
>>> us/HT204137
>>>>>    (in reply to end of DATA command)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Rejected due to local policy?
>>>> Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
>>>> recommendation.
>>>> 
>>>> Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the
>>>> whole
>>>> time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that
>>>> setup for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize
>>>> that it hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I doubt
>>>> this will be setup on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not
>>>> there now, and it's not even clear if that is the reason for the
>>>> rejects, or some other thing. There is also no way to even get in
>>>> touch with Apple in this case, to fix this. So there is a fair
>>>> chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few
>>> more addresses in the near future...
>>>> 
>>>> I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
>>>> host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
>>>> 
>>>>   Johnny
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>>>>                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
>>>> email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
>>>> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> 
>

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