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[William Pechter]

Actually the fun mil-spec VT100 was the Tempest VT100.  Metal case to 
avoid radiating information into the air and a metal cased VT100 keyboard.

Dropped that in my lap only ONCE at the FBI facility I was Field Service 
for. Ugh.

bill

On 4/23/20 7:21 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> Oh how quickly people forget. :-)
>
> The correct quote is:
> If your computer don't have 36 bits, you are not playing with a full DEC.
>
> The "mil-spec" VT100 was probably the RT100: 
> https://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter8.html (oh how I hate the 
> "everything should be using https"...)
>
>   Johnny
>
> On 2020-04-24 00:15, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>> Sir, I stand *corrected* and do humbly admit my errors.  I didn't see 
>> anything Orange on the mac.io website, so I just assumed...  I didn't 
>> go to the Facebook site because I won't have a thing to do with their 
>> policies, stated or covert.
>>
>> A memory surfaced and I realized that I was also completely wrong 
>> about the 2020's networking capabilities, too.  In 1979, DEC's 
>> Federal Systems group had a 2020 on the ARPAnet and I used it to send 
>> email to some of my pals at MIT LCS when I working 2nd and 3rd 
>> shift.  So the hardware existed to communicate with an IMP and MIT 
>> used it implement TCP/IP on ITS.  This is simulated by the KLH10 2020 
>> implementation and that's how ITS communicates today.
>>
>> Federal Systems was a real hike from manufacturing in Marlboro where 
>> I used to hang out; three buildings away.  It was also notable for 
>> having mil-spec VT100's.  Instead of plastic, they were made out of 
>> very thick metal, I think maybe machined aluminum.  The cables where 
>> sheathed in metal and the connectors were substantially enlarged and 
>> strengthened.  The display glass also had a dense metal screen in 
>> front of it.  They really looked like they could withstand a hand 
>> grenade and weighed a ton... Well that's what I thought at the time, 
>> another alternative that didn't occur to me until decades later was 
>> that all this just could have been RF shielding.
>>
>> I had left DEC and was at Columbia before the Internet role out, so I 
>> don't know whether Tops-20 4.1, the last official release for the 
>> 2020, supported TCP/IP.  I just can't remember, darn it...  I know 
>> that Tops-20 5.0 supported TCP/IP AND that MRC was able to port 5.0 
>> to the 2020.  LingLing was on the Internet from time to time.  That 
>> must have been some hack; by late version 3, it was seen that the 
>> monitor was running out of address space and when the hardware folks 
>> suggested eliminating the symbol table, the monitor folks flipped as 
>> debugging would have been effectively hatcheted.
>>
>> The solution for 4.1 was one of the finest hacks I have ever heard 
>> of; while the 2020 doesn't support extended addressing, it does 
>> support multiple address spaces, so what they did was move all the 
>> symbols into a separate address space.  This was called 'hiding' 
>> symbols and I thought it was great because it made them harder to 
>> smash.  However, all of that went out the window with 5.0, which 
>> fully supported extended addressing.
>>
>> DEC completely walked away from the 2020 and symbol hiding for the 
>> Tops-20 5.0 monitor.  In fact, I remember an SPR response scolding an 
>> acquaintance of mine for trying to turn symbol hiding back on in 
>> 5.0.  Basically, it was a corporate, 'Fuggetaboutit'.  Pity; for user 
>> programs, Tenex and Tops-20 had something called IDDT (Invisible DDT) 
>> which kept the symbols in a completely different process space, 
>> effectively making them impossible to smash, no matter how sick your 
>> program got. Symbol hiding was cool.  Not that I'm going to try 
>> figure out how to turn it back on...
>>
>> You know, I have been out to Pittsburgh a few times.  In the 1980's, 
>> Columbia flew me out there so that I could learn about CMU's 
>> modifications to LPTSPL to support the nearly entirely awesome Xerox 
>> 9700.  I was out there again about a year ago for a conference.  
>> Still, that's a real hike...  My relatives live in near 
>> Elizabethtown, not quite spitting distance from three mile island 
>> (!!), so that's another four hours to New Kensington after they're 
>> done with me.  Ouch...  Oh well, never say 'never'...
>>
>> That's some pretty good swag you have by the way; minor suggestion, 
>> in addition to the anti-VAXer T-shirt, you might want to have another 
>> one that says the somewhat subtle, "If it doesn't have 36 Bits, it 
>> isn't a Digital computer".  I did know some people who were so 
>> anti-VAX that they positively would froth at the mouth.  I could 
>> understand the frothing, given what happened, but still, one prefers 
>> not wear one's froth on their sleeve.  It would have been a lot 
>> better for everybody had there been more and better communication and 
>> less NIH.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>> On 4/23/20 12:20 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>> On 4/22/20 11:42 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I'm in Looooong Island, South Shore.
>>>    Ahhh, New Yawwwk.  You should head out this way at some point.
>>>
>>>> I actually have relatives not far from you in PA, but I hadn't gotten
>>>> around to noodging you yet for the distinct lack of 20's in your
>>>> collection.  I mean, you have a 4341 yet no 20?  Tisk, tisk...
>>>    You sir are misinformed.  There are three KS10s here.
>>>
>>>> Well, I'm pulling your leg a bit; a 20 is a seriously heavy lift.  
>>>> A KL
>>>> has three purposes in life: 1) Generate Heat, 2) Suck Power, 3) Run
>>>> winning code.  A 2020 uses far less power, but doesn't have extended
>>>> addressing, so it is stuck at Tops-20 4.1, which leaves out a lot of
>>>> DECnet (and ARPAnet) stuff.  Apparently, you can squeeze 5.0 in; 
>>>> MRC did
>>>> this, but that was MRC.  Tops-20 is at version 7.0 now.
>>>    Indeed.
>>>
>>>> And both of them are seriously cranky beasts that needed care and
>>>> feeding from trained service personnel; wire wrap and all that (yech).
>>>> Remember, it's not a mainframe unless you can't fit it in your 
>>>> house and
>>>> have to take out a second mortgage to pay for the electricity and tons
>>>> (60 for a 20) of air conditioning.
>>>    We're no strangers to cranky around here. ;)
>>>
>>>> So Paul Allen had a KL based 20, which is now in the the Living 
>>>> Computer
>>>> museum.  But that cost was apparently less than a rounding error
>>>> compared to what he was worth.  A mere monetary blip, as it were.
>>>    Yep.
>>>
>>>            -Dave
>>>
>
>
-- 
Digital had it then.  Don't you wish you could buy it now!
pechter-at-gmail.com  http://xkcd.com/705/