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[Johnny Billquist]

On 2020-04-24 02:01, William Pechter wrote:
> Actually the fun mil-spec VT100 was the Tempest VT100.  Metal case to 
> avoid radiating information into the air and a metal cased VT100 keyboard.
> 
> Dropped that in my lap only ONCE at the FBI facility I was Field Service 
> for. Ugh.

Might also be. But check that link. You have pictures and details about 
the RT100, which definitely was also in a metal box, and so on. It was 
intended for industrial places where you might have both aggressive 
chemicals, heavy tools and equipment that might hit stuff, and also 
possibly problematic gases. So it was a rather sturdy designed VT100.

   Johnny

> 
> bill
> 
> On 4/23/20 7:21 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> Oh how quickly people forget. :-)
>>
>> The correct quote is:
>> If your computer don't have 36 bits, you are not playing with a full DEC.
>>
>> The "mil-spec" VT100 was probably the RT100: 
>> https://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter8.html (oh how I hate the 
>> "everything should be using https"...)
>>
>>   Johnny
>>
>> On 2020-04-24 00:15, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>> Sir, I stand *corrected* and do humbly admit my errors.  I didn't see 
>>> anything Orange on the mac.io website, so I just assumed...  I didn't 
>>> go to the Facebook site because I won't have a thing to do with their 
>>> policies, stated or covert.
>>>
>>> A memory surfaced and I realized that I was also completely wrong 
>>> about the 2020's networking capabilities, too.  In 1979, DEC's 
>>> Federal Systems group had a 2020 on the ARPAnet and I used it to send 
>>> email to some of my pals at MIT LCS when I working 2nd and 3rd 
>>> shift.  So the hardware existed to communicate with an IMP and MIT 
>>> used it implement TCP/IP on ITS.  This is simulated by the KLH10 2020 
>>> implementation and that's how ITS communicates today.
>>>
>>> Federal Systems was a real hike from manufacturing in Marlboro where 
>>> I used to hang out; three buildings away.  It was also notable for 
>>> having mil-spec VT100's.  Instead of plastic, they were made out of 
>>> very thick metal, I think maybe machined aluminum.  The cables where 
>>> sheathed in metal and the connectors were substantially enlarged and 
>>> strengthened.  The display glass also had a dense metal screen in 
>>> front of it.  They really looked like they could withstand a hand 
>>> grenade and weighed a ton... Well that's what I thought at the time, 
>>> another alternative that didn't occur to me until decades later was 
>>> that all this just could have been RF shielding.
>>>
>>> I had left DEC and was at Columbia before the Internet role out, so I 
>>> don't know whether Tops-20 4.1, the last official release for the 
>>> 2020, supported TCP/IP.  I just can't remember, darn it...  I know 
>>> that Tops-20 5.0 supported TCP/IP AND that MRC was able to port 5.0 
>>> to the 2020.  LingLing was on the Internet from time to time.  That 
>>> must have been some hack; by late version 3, it was seen that the 
>>> monitor was running out of address space and when the hardware folks 
>>> suggested eliminating the symbol table, the monitor folks flipped as 
>>> debugging would have been effectively hatcheted.
>>>
>>> The solution for 4.1 was one of the finest hacks I have ever heard 
>>> of; while the 2020 doesn't support extended addressing, it does 
>>> support multiple address spaces, so what they did was move all the 
>>> symbols into a separate address space.  This was called 'hiding' 
>>> symbols and I thought it was great because it made them harder to 
>>> smash.  However, all of that went out the window with 5.0, which 
>>> fully supported extended addressing.
>>>
>>> DEC completely walked away from the 2020 and symbol hiding for the 
>>> Tops-20 5.0 monitor.  In fact, I remember an SPR response scolding an 
>>> acquaintance of mine for trying to turn symbol hiding back on in 
>>> 5.0.  Basically, it was a corporate, 'Fuggetaboutit'.  Pity; for user 
>>> programs, Tenex and Tops-20 had something called IDDT (Invisible DDT) 
>>> which kept the symbols in a completely different process space, 
>>> effectively making them impossible to smash, no matter how sick your 
>>> program got. Symbol hiding was cool.  Not that I'm going to try 
>>> figure out how to turn it back on...
>>>
>>> You know, I have been out to Pittsburgh a few times.  In the 1980's, 
>>> Columbia flew me out there so that I could learn about CMU's 
>>> modifications to LPTSPL to support the nearly entirely awesome Xerox 
>>> 9700.  I was out there again about a year ago for a conference. 
>>> Still, that's a real hike...  My relatives live in near 
>>> Elizabethtown, not quite spitting distance from three mile island 
>>> (!!), so that's another four hours to New Kensington after they're 
>>> done with me.  Ouch...  Oh well, never say 'never'...
>>>
>>> That's some pretty good swag you have by the way; minor suggestion, 
>>> in addition to the anti-VAXer T-shirt, you might want to have another 
>>> one that says the somewhat subtle, "If it doesn't have 36 Bits, it 
>>> isn't a Digital computer".  I did know some people who were so 
>>> anti-VAX that they positively would froth at the mouth.  I could 
>>> understand the frothing, given what happened, but still, one prefers 
>>> not wear one's froth on their sleeve.  It would have been a lot 
>>> better for everybody had there been more and better communication and 
>>> less NIH.
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>> On 4/23/20 12:20 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/22/20 11:42 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, I'm in Looooong Island, South Shore.
>>>>    Ahhh, New Yawwwk.  You should head out this way at some point.
>>>>
>>>>> I actually have relatives not far from you in PA, but I hadn't gotten
>>>>> around to noodging you yet for the distinct lack of 20's in your
>>>>> collection.  I mean, you have a 4341 yet no 20?  Tisk, tisk...
>>>>    You sir are misinformed.  There are three KS10s here.
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I'm pulling your leg a bit; a 20 is a seriously heavy lift. A KL
>>>>> has three purposes in life: 1) Generate Heat, 2) Suck Power, 3) Run
>>>>> winning code.  A 2020 uses far less power, but doesn't have extended
>>>>> addressing, so it is stuck at Tops-20 4.1, which leaves out a lot of
>>>>> DECnet (and ARPAnet) stuff.  Apparently, you can squeeze 5.0 in; 
>>>>> MRC did
>>>>> this, but that was MRC.  Tops-20 is at version 7.0 now.
>>>>    Indeed.
>>>>
>>>>> And both of them are seriously cranky beasts that needed care and
>>>>> feeding from trained service personnel; wire wrap and all that (yech).
>>>>> Remember, it's not a mainframe unless you can't fit it in your 
>>>>> house and
>>>>> have to take out a second mortgage to pay for the electricity and tons
>>>>> (60 for a 20) of air conditioning.
>>>>    We're no strangers to cranky around here. ;)
>>>>
>>>>> So Paul Allen had a KL based 20, which is now in the the Living 
>>>>> Computer
>>>>> museum.  But that cost was apparently less than a rounding error
>>>>> compared to what he was worth.  A mere monetary blip, as it were.
>>>>    Yep.
>>>>
>>>>            -Dave
>>>>
>>
>>


-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol