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[Thomas DeBellis]

Yeah, it really was a beast; completely ready for battle.  I was 
surprised somebody hadn't thought of grafting on a photon torpedo launcher.

If you find a picture of it, let me know.

On 4/23/20 8:01 PM, William Pechter wrote:
> Actually the fun mil-spec VT100 was the Tempest VT100.  Metal case to 
> avoid radiating information into the air and a metal cased VT100 
> keyboard.
>
> Dropped that in my lap only ONCE at the FBI facility I was Field 
> Service for. Ugh.
>
> bill
>
> On 4/23/20 7:21 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> Oh how quickly people forget. :-)
>>
>> The correct quote is:
>> If your computer don't have 36 bits, you are not playing with a full 
>> DEC.
>>
>> The "mil-spec" VT100 was probably the RT100: 
>> https://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter8.html (oh how I hate the 
>> "everything should be using https"...)
>>
>>   Johnny
>>
>> On 2020-04-24 00:15, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>> Sir, I stand *corrected* and do humbly admit my errors.  I didn't 
>>> see anything Orange on the mac.io website, so I just assumed...  I 
>>> didn't go to the Facebook site because I won't have a thing to do 
>>> with their policies, stated or covert.
>>>
>>> A memory surfaced and I realized that I was also completely wrong 
>>> about the 2020's networking capabilities, too.  In 1979, DEC's 
>>> Federal Systems group had a 2020 on the ARPAnet and I used it to 
>>> send email to some of my pals at MIT LCS when I working 2nd and 3rd 
>>> shift.  So the hardware existed to communicate with an IMP and MIT 
>>> used it implement TCP/IP on ITS.  This is simulated by the KLH10 
>>> 2020 implementation and that's how ITS communicates today.
>>>
>>> Federal Systems was a real hike from manufacturing in Marlboro where 
>>> I used to hang out; three buildings away.  It was also notable for 
>>> having mil-spec VT100's.  Instead of plastic, they were made out of 
>>> very thick metal, I think maybe machined aluminum.  The cables where 
>>> sheathed in metal and the connectors were substantially enlarged and 
>>> strengthened.  The display glass also had a dense metal screen in 
>>> front of it. They really looked like they could withstand a hand 
>>> grenade and weighed a ton... Well that's what I thought at the time, 
>>> another alternative that didn't occur to me until decades later was 
>>> that all this just could have been RF shielding.
>>>
>>> I had left DEC and was at Columbia before the Internet role out, so 
>>> I don't know whether Tops-20 4.1, the last official release for the 
>>> 2020, supported TCP/IP.  I just can't remember, darn it...  I know 
>>> that Tops-20 5.0 supported TCP/IP AND that MRC was able to port 5.0 
>>> to the 2020.  LingLing was on the Internet from time to time.  That 
>>> must have been some hack; by late version 3, it was seen that the 
>>> monitor was running out of address space and when the hardware folks 
>>> suggested eliminating the symbol table, the monitor folks flipped as 
>>> debugging would have been effectively hatcheted.
>>>
>>> The solution for 4.1 was one of the finest hacks I have ever heard 
>>> of; while the 2020 doesn't support extended addressing, it does 
>>> support multiple address spaces, so what they did was move all the 
>>> symbols into a separate address space.  This was called 'hiding' 
>>> symbols and I thought it was great because it made them harder to 
>>> smash.  However, all of that went out the window with 5.0, which 
>>> fully supported extended addressing.
>>>
>>> DEC completely walked away from the 2020 and symbol hiding for the 
>>> Tops-20 5.0 monitor.  In fact, I remember an SPR response scolding 
>>> an acquaintance of mine for trying to turn symbol hiding back on in 
>>> 5.0.  Basically, it was a corporate, 'Fuggetaboutit'.  Pity; for 
>>> user programs, Tenex and Tops-20 had something called IDDT 
>>> (Invisible DDT) which kept the symbols in a completely different 
>>> process space, effectively making them impossible to smash, no 
>>> matter how sick your program got. Symbol hiding was cool.  Not that 
>>> I'm going to try figure out how to turn it back on...
>>>
>>> You know, I have been out to Pittsburgh a few times.  In the 1980's, 
>>> Columbia flew me out there so that I could learn about CMU's 
>>> modifications to LPTSPL to support the nearly entirely awesome Xerox 
>>> 9700.  I was out there again about a year ago for a conference.  
>>> Still, that's a real hike...  My relatives live in near 
>>> Elizabethtown, not quite spitting distance from three mile island 
>>> (!!), so that's another four hours to New Kensington after they're 
>>> done with me.  Ouch...  Oh well, never say 'never'...
>>>
>>> That's some pretty good swag you have by the way; minor suggestion, 
>>> in addition to the anti-VAXer T-shirt, you might want to have 
>>> another one that says the somewhat subtle, "If it doesn't have 36 
>>> Bits, it isn't a Digital computer".  I did know some people who were 
>>> so anti-VAX that they positively would froth at the mouth.  I could 
>>> understand the frothing, given what happened, but still, one prefers 
>>> not wear one's froth on their sleeve.  It would have been a lot 
>>> better for everybody had there been more and better communication 
>>> and less NIH.
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>> On 4/23/20 12:20 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/22/20 11:42 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, I'm in Looooong Island, South Shore.
>>>>    Ahhh, New Yawwwk.  You should head out this way at some point.
>>>>
>>>>> I actually have relatives not far from you in PA, but I hadn't gotten
>>>>> around to noodging you yet for the distinct lack of 20's in your
>>>>> collection.  I mean, you have a 4341 yet no 20?  Tisk, tisk...
>>>>    You sir are misinformed.  There are three KS10s here.
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I'm pulling your leg a bit; a 20 is a seriously heavy lift.  
>>>>> A KL
>>>>> has three purposes in life: 1) Generate Heat, 2) Suck Power, 3) Run
>>>>> winning code.  A 2020 uses far less power, but doesn't have extended
>>>>> addressing, so it is stuck at Tops-20 4.1, which leaves out a lot of
>>>>> DECnet (and ARPAnet) stuff.  Apparently, you can squeeze 5.0 in; 
>>>>> MRC did
>>>>> this, but that was MRC.  Tops-20 is at version 7.0 now.
>>>>    Indeed.
>>>>
>>>>> And both of them are seriously cranky beasts that needed care and
>>>>> feeding from trained service personnel; wire wrap and all that 
>>>>> (yech).
>>>>> Remember, it's not a mainframe unless you can't fit it in your 
>>>>> house and
>>>>> have to take out a second mortgage to pay for the electricity and 
>>>>> tons
>>>>> (60 for a 20) of air conditioning.
>>>>    We're no strangers to cranky around here. ;)
>>>>
>>>>> So Paul Allen had a KL based 20, which is now in the the Living 
>>>>> Computer
>>>>> museum.  But that cost was apparently less than a rounding error
>>>>> compared to what he was worth.  A mere monetary blip, as it were.
>>>>    Yep.
>>>>
>>>>            -Dave
>>>>
>>
>>