[HECnet] DECnet-10 doesn't work past Nov 9 2021?
Johnny Billquist
bqt at softjar.se
Mon Dec 28 20:18:34 PST 2020
16363 days, means 32766 half days, which is octal 77777, which is 7FFF
hex. 16 bits can hold up to 65535, which is 177777 octal, or FFFF hex,
if treated unsigned. Which with the current encoding will cover up to
the year 2065.
Johnny
On 2020-12-29 05:06, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
> I did some date arithmetic; there are 16,383 days between 1/1/1977 and
> 11/9/2021.
>
> Since Tops-10 is calculating by half days, that's why I clamp it to the
> unsigned octal value of 177777 (3FFF hex).
>
> Would a later version of NICE have expanded this to four bytes? That
> seems like the thing to do.
>
> On 12/28/20 11:00 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> Uh? It seemed VMS is treating it as signed, and/or wrapping at 15
>> bits, so it fails after Nov 9, 2021.
>>
>> Why not just do as RSX, and treat it as unsigned 16 bits. Which leaves
>> it working correct until 2065.
>>
>> If we, at some point, want to change things after that, we can either
>> change the format, or change the base year.
>>
>> Johnny
>>
>> On 2020-12-29 04:52, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>> So it appears that NICE wants the Julian half day count in an
>>> unsigned short, or 16 bits; that seems obvious enough.
>>>
>>> I wrote a Tops-10 patch to have it wrap like what appears to be
>>> happening on OpenVMS.
>>>
>>> In D36COM.MAC at NMXTIM+9, change the following two lines (which
>>> skip or fall into the COM911 BUGHLT),
>>>
>>> SKIPL T2 ;MAKE SURE WE HAVE A POSITIVE NUMBER
>>> OF SECONDS
>>> TDNE T1,[XWD -1,600000] ;MAKE SURE NO DATE OVERFLOW
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>> SKIPGE T2 ;Do WE HAVE A POSITIVE NUMBER OF
>>> SECONDS?
>>> MOVMS T2 ; No. Fine, now we're plenty positive
>>> TDZA T1,[XWD -1,600000] ;MAKE SURE never any DATE OVERFLOW ever
>>>
>>> However, I don't run any Tops-10 systems, so if anybody wants to try
>>> this and let me know, that would be appreciated. Better to wrap the
>>> count than to just stop code. At WPI, we would have considered that
>>> 'rude'.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> On 12/28/20 10:08 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If I'm understanding this correctly, it would seem to indicate that
>>>> there is no reason for Tops-10 to crash because of a Julian half day
>>>> roll over. I had verified that there is no problem with the
>>>> internal time for system logging (I.E., the records that SPEAR gets
>>>> out of ERROR.SYS).
>>>>
>>>> Tops-10 and Tops-20 share the same internal time format (a
>>>> significant difference between Tops-20 and TENEX), even if Tops-10
>>>> doesn't handle it properly as an unsigned word, it will still handle
>>>> events up to 27-Sep-2217. Since that's over 196 years from now, I
>>>> would assume this is adequate time to really address the problem.
>>>>
>>>> I'll take another look at the code and see if I can't come up with a
>>>> workaround.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, I wanted to make sure I understood what was going on
>>>> where with the output below. Which OPCOM is running where? Is this
>>>> only OPCOM output from APOLLO as HERMES comes up and sends a circuit
>>>> up message? The START /NETWORK DECNET is issued on HERMES?
>>>>
>>>> On 12/27/20 8:17 PM, Jason Brady wrote:
>>>>> Ah...here are the test system (HERMES) operator log messages
>>>>> (notice the 31-JAN-1977 00:00:06.21 timestamp):
>>>>>
>>>>> $ START /NETWORK DECNET
>>>>> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 27-DEC-2022 16:41:31.22 %%%%%%%%%%%
>>>>> Message from user DECNET on HERMES
>>>>> DECnet starting
>>>>>
>>>>> %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 00000125
>>>>> %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM has been superseded
>>>>> %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_NOSOFTID has been
>>>>> superseded
>>>>> %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of MOM$SYSTEM_SOFTID has been
>>>>> superseded
>>>>> %NCP-I-NOINFO, No information in database
>>>>> %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 00000127
>>>>> $
>>>>> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 27-DEC-2022 16:41:36.76 %%%%%%%%%%%
>>>>> Message from user DECNET on HERMES
>>>>> DECnet event 4.10, circuit up
>>>>> From node 2.404 (HERMES), 31-JAN-1977 00:00:06.21
>>>>> Circuit EWA-0
>>>>>
>>>>> $
>>>>> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 27-DEC-2022 16:41:41.87 %%%%%%%%%%%
>>>>> Message from user DECNET on HERMES
>>>>> DECnet event 4.15, adjacency up
>>>>> From node 2.404 (HERMES), 31-JAN-1977 00:00:06.21
>>>>> Circuit EWA-0, Adjacent node = 2.400 (APOLLO)
>>>>>
>>>>> And from APOLLO adjacent node (down/up when DECnet cycled):
>>>>>
>>>>> APOLLO->
>>>>> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 27-DEC-2020 16:31:27.60 %%%%%%%%%%%
>>>>> Message from user DECNET on APOLLO
>>>>> DECnet event 4.18, adjacency down
>>>>> From node 2.400 (APOLLO), 27-DEC-2020 16:31:27.59
>>>>> Circuit EWA-0, Adjacent node listener receive timeout
>>>>> Adjacent node = 2.404 (HERMES)
>>>>>
>>>>> APOLLO->
>>>>> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 27-DEC-2020 16:42:33.54 %%%%%%%%%%%
>>>>> Message from user DECNET on APOLLO
>>>>> DECnet event 4.15, adjacency up
>>>>> From node 2.400 (APOLLO), 27-DEC-2020 16:42:33.54
>>>>> Circuit EWA-0, Adjacent node = 2.404 (HERMES)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>>>> That doesn't fully answer the question. What you see is the
>>>>>> system log, which presumably uses VMS time stamps. Those have a
>>>>>> wide range. The question is what the DECnet events would show,
>>>>>> when encoded in the NICE protocol. If you configure it to send
>>>>>> events (like node reachable or circuit up) to another node, what
>>>>>> do the timestamps look like on that other node?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 2020, at 7:42 PM, Jason Brady <jr_brady at fastmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:jr_brady at fastmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Booted test Alpha system running OpenVMS 8.4 and set the date to
>>>>>>> 27-DEC-2022. Started DECnet Phase IV. No errors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From node APOLLO, no problem transferring files from the test
>>>>>>> system and displaying network info (TELL ... SHOW EXEC, etc.).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Snippet from test system NML$SERVER.LOG:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Connect request received at 27-DEC-2022 16:29:25.54
>>>>>>> from remote process APOLLO::"0=JASON"
>>>>>>> for object "SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]NML.EXE"
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Snippet from test system FAL$SERVER.LOG:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Connect request received at 27-DEC-2022 16:26:56.85
>>>>>>> from remote process APOLLO::"0=JASON"
>>>>>>> for object "SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]FAL.EXE"
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the above satisfactory, at least for OpenVMS Alpha?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, at 10:06 AM, Robert Armstrong wrote:
>>>>>>>> > John Forecast wrote:
>>>>>>>> >DECnet event logging for any system may fail after Nov 9th 2021.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh, that's a much bigger deal! Do you happen to know if VMS
>>>>>>>> handles this field as unsigned?? A lot of people here are going
>>>>>>>> to be bummed if VMS quits working next fall...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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