[HECnet] long term paks

[Thomas DeBellis]

I should add, however, that even IBM has come to understand the value of 
having people understanding and adoring their operating systems and 
maximizing the knowledgeable user base.  Otherwise, finding people to do 
maintenance can be problematic (== $$$) or impossible.

My understanding is that while you can't get the most current version of 
the various 390 based OS's, you can get older ones for free for hobbyist 
usage.  OK...

In other words, buzz is a good thing.  Perhaps we can hope that VSI will 
figure that out.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 3/13/20 4:08 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>
> I think part of this is valid.  However...
>
> The VAX to Alpha emulation was an ongoing effort and I recall that 
> what was published about it was quite interesting (I think this was 
> mid-1990's). Recall that the Alpha was the fastest chip in the world 
> at the time; 300 Mhz.  Nearly incomprehensible...  That was plenty of 
> speed to get your VAX code working.
>
> With gigahertz speeds, it seems to me that not only would emulation of 
> Alpha be usable, but that emulation of Alpha emulating VAX would be 
> usable.
>
> The value-add of x86_64 VMS is that you can keep running VAX software; 
> the sources might not exist.  You may have invested many, many 
> man-years in development and this is a cheaper alternative to porting. 
> That is certainly the case in many instances on z/OS.  It is not about 
> the cheaper hardware.
>
> Microsoft has a different sales model that is largely consumer driven; 
> if you don't respond quickly then people go elsewhere.  For commercial 
> systems, hoops are /de rigueur/.  Believe me, you just don't walk in 
> and pick up an IBM mainframe (or you didn't anyway).  In some ways, 
> VSI, Stomasys and the others are acting in a perfectly ordinary manner 
> (that we as hobbyists do not appreciate).
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On 3/13/20 3:49 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:
>>
>>
>> I’m still having difficulty in envisaging a situation where VSI (and 
>> Stromasys and other commercial purveyors of VAX and Alpha emulators) 
>> can actually generate any new business even if/when VSI produce a 
>> port of VMS to x86/64. Are VSI going to bother doing JIT, or even 
>> one-time translation of VAX and Alpha images to x86/64. I got the 
>> impression that VAX to Alpha image translation wasn’t that great for 
>> anything particularly sophisticated. VAX and Alpha legacy software 
>> and its maintenance are probably as locked into now obsolete layered 
>> products as they are the hardware (real/emulated). New potential 
>> customers buying x86/64 hardware or cloud capacity are going to take 
>> a look at Windows and Linux, having already discounted the several 
>> orders of magnitude higher costs of VMS if the somewhat opaque VSI 
>> marketing rituals haven’t already put them off.
>>
>> I know what Windows Server 2019 will cost me, up front or hosted, on 
>> a range of platforms or providers within about 15 minutes of looking.
>>
>> I haven’t the faintest idea with VMS – neither HPE nor VSI will tell 
>> me until I jump through hoops and then it’ll be after ’72 hours’ of 
>> evasion and horse-trading.
>>
>> No thanks.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> *From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] 
>> *On Behalf Of *David Moylan
>> *Sent:* 13 March 2020 11:32
>> *To:* hecnet at update.uu.se
>> *Subject:* Re: [HECnet] long term paks
>>
>> From what I have heard, it’s full commercial rate with no discounts. 
>> Think $20K plus per instance licensed.
>>
>> Hobbyist users who wish to use their VAXen beyond December 2021 will 
>> need to obtain “alternative” licensing.
>>
>> Cheers, Wiz!!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 13 Mar 2020, at 7:47 am, Thomas DeBellis
>>     <tommytimesharing at gmail.com <mailto:tommytimesharing at gmail.com>>
>>     wrote:
>>
>>     
>>
>>     I'm suspect  "normal commercial prices" == "bring your wallet"
>>
>>     Go see what prices are for SAS to see what I mean.
>>
>>     On 3/12/20 2:58 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>
>>         Can anyone translate "normal commercial prices" into numbers?
>>
>>         paul
>>
>>
>>
>>             On Mar 12, 2020, at 2:51 PM, Dave Wade
>>             <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com <mailto:dave.g4ugm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Jon says normal commercial prices so too expensive for most
>>
>>             Dave
>>
>>             On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 7:46 am Ray Jewhurst,
>>             <raywjewhurst at gmail.com <mailto:raywjewhurst at gmail.com>>
>>             wrote:
>>
>>                 I haven't received an email from them yet but I
>>                 wonder if the offer will time sensitive or if we wait
>>                 until December 31st 2021 when the final free hobbyist
>>                 licenses expire.
>>
>>                 RayÂ
>>
>>                 On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 2:41 PM Bill Cunningham
>>                 <bill.cu at suddenlink.net
>>                 <mailto:bill.cu at suddenlink.net>> wrote:
>>
>>                     I just received an email from the HPE program. I
>>                     guess they are going to
>>                     have long term PAKs they are selling to
>>                     hobbyists. So I guess I am out.
>>                     There is someone named Jon you can get these
>>                     from. I believe Jon Feldman.
>>
>>                     Bill
>>
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