[HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should be Ddcmp --> Re:4

[R. Voorhorst]

Well, that leaves 0,01% chance to see that assumption defeated  so why not test it? 
 I'll see next week if that can be tested if a software testbed can be found to support the single Dup11 that wise: VMS at least does not in the Decnet corner but Vax Psi may be different. Maybe Rsx-11M+ would be a suitable testbed?

Reindert

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm
Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 05:19
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should be Ddcmp --Re3

I have not followed the details of this conversation, BUT I'm 99.99% sure that a PDP11 can be configured with just a DUP with DECnet using that interface, and that DUP can be "wired" to another simulator which has a DUP, KDP/DUP or a DMC and DECnet can be spoken just fine.

- Mark

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:35 PM, Reindert wrote:
> 
> No, the Dup is only simulated as Kdp/Dup combo, hence the Ddcmp 
> characteristics of the pair.
> 
> 
> Reindert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner- hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On 
> Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
> Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 00:31
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should 
> be Ddcmp --Re2
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> But DUP11 is a sync character based interface. So that one too 
> requires that you do DDCMP in software. But I didn't think simh simulated a DUP11?
> 
>    Johnny
> 
> On 2021-11-18 23:33, R. Voorhorst wrote:
> > Yes, but they are async lines and these are indeed character based 
> > with
> software determining the protocol, not so the sync liness. Async 
> decnet ddcmp behaves slightly differently from sync decnet ddcmp in 
> number of characters used. Look at the packet contents in used 
> characters and in between.
> >
> > Reindert
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
> hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
> > Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
> > Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 23:23
> > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> > Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> 
> > should be Ddcmp --Re
> >
> > Well... RSX for example can talk DDCMP over DZ11 or DL11 lines just 
> > as well,
> which are plain simple serial lines existing in simh.
> > Hopefully such lines can be connected with interfaces doing DDCMP in
> hardware (simulated in simh of course), and it should all work.
> >
> > And any software running in RSX just have an interface that gives 
> > the
> DDCMP packet layer. The actual serial lines are not accessible as such 
> by any other software than the DDCMP driver.
> >
> >     Johnny
> >
> > On 2021-11-18 23:01, R. Voorhorst wrote:
> >> Point in this case is that the ddcmp is handled in Simh and not in 
> >> system
> software so software can only deal with packets/messages; there is 
> need for a simh sync line where the software itself will be able to 
> communicate in bytes/characters and synthesize the packets/messages as 
> the next higher organization.
> >>
> >> Reindert
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
> hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
> >> Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
> >> Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 22:39
> >> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> >> Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> 
> >> should be Ddcmp
> >>
> >> Well, a serial line over which DDCMP is running is purely a packet 
> >> based
> interface.
> >>
> >>      Johnny
> >>
> >> On 2021-11-18 21:46, R. Voorhorst wrote:
> >>> Indeed it is Ddcmp, but the meaning is the difference between 
> >>> packet/message oriented and character oriented and the latter 
> >>> should
> also exist.
> >>>
> >>> Reindert
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
> hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
> >>> On Behalf Of Robert Armstrong
> >>> Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 21:11
> >>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> >>> Subject: RE: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet)
> >>>
> >>>> Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>> They speak DDCMP, yes, but not DECnet.  Any protocol layered over 
> >>>> DDCMP
> >>> should work.
> >>>
> >>>      Indeed, and we just proved that with ANF10 which uses the 
> >>> DMCs and DUPs but is not DECnet.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> 
> --
> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>                                    ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol