[HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should be Ddcmp --> Re:4

[Johnny Billquist]

RSX definitely can use a DUP11 standalone through DECnet. In which case 
it's software side DDCMP.

Heck, you can also use the DDCMP layer yourself, without involving 
DECnet. It does present it as a device to the system on which you can 
send/receive packets.

   Johnny

On 2021-11-19 12:22, R. Voorhorst wrote:
> Well, that leaves 0,01% chance to see that assumption defeated  so why not test it?
>   I'll see next week if that can be tested if a software testbed can be found to support the single Dup11 that wise: VMS at least does not in the Decnet corner but Vax Psi may be different. Maybe Rsx-11M+ would be a suitable testbed?
> 
> Reindert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm
> Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 05:19
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: RE: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should be Ddcmp --Re3
> 
> I have not followed the details of this conversation, BUT I'm 99.99% sure that a PDP11 can be configured with just a DUP with DECnet using that interface, and that DUP can be "wired" to another simulator which has a DUP, KDP/DUP or a DMC and DECnet can be spoken just fine.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:35 PM, Reindert wrote:
>>
>> No, the Dup is only simulated as Kdp/Dup combo, hence the Ddcmp
>> characteristics of the pair.
>>
>>
>> Reindert
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner- hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
>> Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
>> Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 00:31
>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>> Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should
>> be Ddcmp --Re2
>>
>> Fair enough.
>>
>> But DUP11 is a sync character based interface. So that one too
>> requires that you do DDCMP in software. But I didn't think simh simulated a DUP11?
>>
>>     Johnny
>>
>> On 2021-11-18 23:33, R. Voorhorst wrote:
>>> Yes, but they are async lines and these are indeed character based
>>> with
>> software determining the protocol, not so the sync liness. Async
>> decnet ddcmp behaves slightly differently from sync decnet ddcmp in
>> number of characters used. Look at the packet contents in used
>> characters and in between.
>>>
>>> Reindert
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
>> hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
>>> Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
>>> Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 23:23
>>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>>> Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) -->
>>> should be Ddcmp --Re
>>>
>>> Well... RSX for example can talk DDCMP over DZ11 or DL11 lines just
>>> as well,
>> which are plain simple serial lines existing in simh.
>>> Hopefully such lines can be connected with interfaces doing DDCMP in
>> hardware (simulated in simh of course), and it should all work.
>>>
>>> And any software running in RSX just have an interface that gives
>>> the
>> DDCMP packet layer. The actual serial lines are not accessible as such
>> by any other software than the DDCMP driver.
>>>
>>>      Johnny
>>>
>>> On 2021-11-18 23:01, R. Voorhorst wrote:
>>>> Point in this case is that the ddcmp is handled in Simh and not in
>>>> system
>> software so software can only deal with packets/messages; there is
>> need for a simh sync line where the software itself will be able to
>> communicate in bytes/characters and synthesize the packets/messages as
>> the next higher organization.
>>>>
>>>> Reindert
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
>> hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
>>>> Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 22:39
>>>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>>>> Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) -->
>>>> should be Ddcmp
>>>>
>>>> Well, a serial line over which DDCMP is running is purely a packet
>>>> based
>> interface.
>>>>
>>>>       Johnny
>>>>
>>>> On 2021-11-18 21:46, R. Voorhorst wrote:
>>>>> Indeed it is Ddcmp, but the meaning is the difference between
>>>>> packet/message oriented and character oriented and the latter
>>>>> should
>> also exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reindert
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-
>> hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Robert Armstrong
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 21:11
>>>>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>>>>> Subject: RE: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> They speak DDCMP, yes, but not DECnet.  Any protocol layered over
>>>>>> DDCMP
>>>>> should work.
>>>>>
>>>>>       Indeed, and we just proved that with ANF10 which uses the
>>>>> DMCs and DUPs but is not DECnet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>>                                     ||  on a psychedelic trip
>> email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
>> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> 
> 

-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol