[HECnet] VMS/RSX Guest accounts
Thomas DeBellis
tommytimesharing at gmail.com
Thu Apr 23 19:40:59 PDT 2020
Yeah, that sounds closer. Well, whatever it is, if David had it as
swag, I would definitely buy one.
Hmm, the 'mil-spec' VT100 that I stumbled over doesn't /quite/ look like
an RT100. What I saw was white and I don't recall it having a membrane
keyboard. The screen wasn't quite shaped like an RT100.
Of course, this was at 3:00 in the morning with no overhead lights on as
I was hurrying back from Federal Systems' 2020 to get back to work on
2116. And 31 years ago...
On 4/23/20 7:21 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> Oh how quickly people forget. :-)
>
> The correct quote is:
> If your computer don't have 36 bits, you are not playing with a full DEC.
>
> The "mil-spec" VT100 was probably the RT100:
> https://vt100.net/docs/tp83/chapter8.html (oh how I hate the
> "everything should be using https"...)
>
> Johnny
>
> On 2020-04-24 00:15, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>> Sir, I stand *corrected* and do humbly admit my errors. I didn't see
>> anything Orange on the mac.io website, so I just assumed... I didn't
>> go to the Facebook site because I won't have a thing to do with their
>> policies, stated or covert.
>>
>> A memory surfaced and I realized that I was also completely wrong
>> about the 2020's networking capabilities, too. In 1979, DEC's
>> Federal Systems group had a 2020 on the ARPAnet and I used it to send
>> email to some of my pals at MIT LCS when I working 2nd and 3rd
>> shift. So the hardware existed to communicate with an IMP and MIT
>> used it implement TCP/IP on ITS. This is simulated by the KLH10 2020
>> implementation and that's how ITS communicates today.
>>
>> Federal Systems was a real hike from manufacturing in Marlboro where
>> I used to hang out; three buildings away. It was also notable for
>> having mil-spec VT100's. Instead of plastic, they were made out of
>> very thick metal, I think maybe machined aluminum. The cables where
>> sheathed in metal and the connectors were substantially enlarged and
>> strengthened. The display glass also had a dense metal screen in
>> front of it. They really looked like they could withstand a hand
>> grenade and weighed a ton... Well that's what I thought at the time,
>> another alternative that didn't occur to me until decades later was
>> that all this just could have been RF shielding.
>>
>> I had left DEC and was at Columbia before the Internet role out, so I
>> don't know whether Tops-20 4.1, the last official release for the
>> 2020, supported TCP/IP. I just can't remember, darn it... I know
>> that Tops-20 5.0 supported TCP/IP AND that MRC was able to port 5.0
>> to the 2020. LingLing was on the Internet from time to time. That
>> must have been some hack; by late version 3, it was seen that the
>> monitor was running out of address space and when the hardware folks
>> suggested eliminating the symbol table, the monitor folks flipped as
>> debugging would have been effectively hatcheted.
>>
>> The solution for 4.1 was one of the finest hacks I have ever heard
>> of; while the 2020 doesn't support extended addressing, it does
>> support multiple address spaces, so what they did was move all the
>> symbols into a separate address space. This was called 'hiding'
>> symbols and I thought it was great because it made them harder to
>> smash. However, all of that went out the window with 5.0, which
>> fully supported extended addressing.
>>
>> DEC completely walked away from the 2020 and symbol hiding for the
>> Tops-20 5.0 monitor. In fact, I remember an SPR response scolding an
>> acquaintance of mine for trying to turn symbol hiding back on in
>> 5.0. Basically, it was a corporate, 'Fuggetaboutit'. Pity; for user
>> programs, Tenex and Tops-20 had something called IDDT (Invisible DDT)
>> which kept the symbols in a completely different process space,
>> effectively making them impossible to smash, no matter how sick your
>> program got. Symbol hiding was cool. Not that I'm going to try
>> figure out how to turn it back on...
>>
>> You know, I have been out to Pittsburgh a few times. In the 1980's,
>> Columbia flew me out there so that I could learn about CMU's
>> modifications to LPTSPL to support the nearly entirely awesome Xerox
>> 9700. I was out there again about a year ago for a conference.
>> Still, that's a real hike... My relatives live in near
>> Elizabethtown, not quite spitting distance from three mile island
>> (!!), so that's another four hours to New Kensington after they're
>> done with me. Ouch... Oh well, never say 'never'...
>>
>> That's some pretty good swag you have by the way; minor suggestion,
>> in addition to the anti-VAXer T-shirt, you might want to have another
>> one that says the somewhat subtle, "If it doesn't have 36 Bits, it
>> isn't a Digital computer". I did know some people who were so
>> anti-VAX that they positively would froth at the mouth. I could
>> understand the frothing, given what happened, but still, one prefers
>> not wear one's froth on their sleeve. It would have been a lot
>> better for everybody had there been more and better communication and
>> less NIH.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> On 4/23/20 12:20 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> On 4/22/20 11:42 PM, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I'm in Looooong Island, South Shore.
>>> Ahhh, New Yawwwk. You should head out this way at some point.
>>>
>>>> I actually have relatives not far from you in PA, but I hadn't gotten
>>>> around to noodging you yet for the distinct lack of 20's in your
>>>> collection. I mean, you have a 4341 yet no 20? Tisk, tisk...
>>> You sir are misinformed. There are three KS10s here.
>>>
>>>> Well, I'm pulling your leg a bit; a 20 is a seriously heavy lift.
>>>> A KL
>>>> has three purposes in life: 1) Generate Heat, 2) Suck Power, 3) Run
>>>> winning code. A 2020 uses far less power, but doesn't have extended
>>>> addressing, so it is stuck at Tops-20 4.1, which leaves out a lot of
>>>> DECnet (and ARPAnet) stuff. Apparently, you can squeeze 5.0 in;
>>>> MRC did
>>>> this, but that was MRC. Tops-20 is at version 7.0 now.
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>>> And both of them are seriously cranky beasts that needed care and
>>>> feeding from trained service personnel; wire wrap and all that (yech).
>>>> Remember, it's not a mainframe unless you can't fit it in your
>>>> house and
>>>> have to take out a second mortgage to pay for the electricity and tons
>>>> (60 for a 20) of air conditioning.
>>> We're no strangers to cranky around here. ;)
>>>
>>>> So Paul Allen had a KL based 20, which is now in the the Living
>>>> Computer
>>>> museum. But that cost was apparently less than a rounding error
>>>> compared to what he was worth. A mere monetary blip, as it were.
>>> Yep.
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>
>
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