[HECnet] Mailing list...

[Dave Wade]

Rob (and the others)

Why do you use your ISPs "free" E-Mail accounts when there are good "free" or "cheap" providers. 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/02/ofcom-warns-major-uk-broadband-isps-over-charging-for-email.html

and if you don't like a @hotmail.com address why not add an @outlook.com, same servers, better reputation...
... as for "spam detection" systems well they want the headline figure , so the "spam detection rate" to be as high as possible.
Most customers are happy with this and blame the sender if things get blocked when in reality it’s the suppliers over aggressive filters...

Dave

p.s. when talking to suppliers of such systems, I say what happens to important stuff wrongly classed as spam? 
Usually they used to tell me it was retained in a folder and could be checked by some minion..
I say so, the Finance Director, who will be paying for this is a bit of a ladies man, gets lewd e-mails from his lady friends who tend to use a different Hotmail account each time? 
Will those get filtered and will the minions see those as it could be embarrassing....... 

Pps. I now have a fixed IP address but it looks like no VAX licences soon.... Alpha has arrived but I am not leaving it on full time even if it runs ... pic here

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ag4BJfE5B3onmM4SMrRd2aiAnoG2dw?e=UGwLNh



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
> Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
> Sent: 31 July 2020 07:48
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
> 
> I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I know that sometimes
> emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know very little
> about these things). I know that people in the know think that these spam
> protection systems are no good, I don't know why because as I said I know
> little about all this, although it seems to me that the *intent* behind those
> systems is good. However, it seems to me that, for whatever reason, they
> are used by a lot of the major ISPs, so might you end up excluding a lot of
> people if you unsubscribe them for using an ISP that uses these measures?
> 
> I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for one mailing list, because I also
> get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it would be quite
> disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were able to tell people that
> you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail account I could use instead if I
> really had to.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
> Behalf
> > Of Johnny Billquist
> > Sent: 30 July 2020 22:40
> > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> > Subject: [HECnet] Mailing list...
> >
> > Hi, all.
> >
> > I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
> > I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something to
> > people who are subscribed.
> >
> > Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do
> > try to check why, and occasionally there have been something I could
> > do about it, but many times it's simply what I would call a broken
> > mail server for which there isn't much I can do. So occasionally I
> > unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
> >
> > One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't
> > have reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS
> > setup for at least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is
> > set up, but I can't do much about it.
> >
> > Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who
> > thinks the hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is
> > untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or what not. Usually not much
> > I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to make
> > use of such services, and such services give that kind of information,
> > it essentially just means that you'll not be getting the hecnet mails any
> more.
> >
> > There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
> > I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken
> > to start with, but I will of course not say that people can't use them
> > if they want to. But chances are that you'll get dropped from the
> > HECnet mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using some
> > service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
> >
> > An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
> >
> > > <XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
> > >     mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected by
> > >     06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to
> > > end of
> > DATA
> > >     command)
> >
> > reason=CH ?
> > What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from
> Switzerland?
> > (Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I sent to the list, but
> really?
> > Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
> >
> > > <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
> > >     mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message
> > rejected
> > >     due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
> > >     (in reply to end of DATA command)
> > >
> > > <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
> > >     mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message
> > rejected
> > >     due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
> > >     (in reply to end of DATA command)
> >
> >
> > Rejected due to local policy?
> > Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
> > recommendation.
> >
> > Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the
> > whole
> > time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that setup
> > for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize that it
> > hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I doubt this will be
> > setup on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not there now, and
> > it's not even clear if that is the reason for the rejects, or some
> > other thing. There is also no way to even get in touch with Apple in
> > this case, to fix this. So there is a fair chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few
> more addresses in the near future...
> >
> > I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
> > host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
> >
> >    Johnny
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
> >                                    ||  on a psychedelic trip
> > email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol